Laser update and advice needed

[ddman2]

Hey everyone, I really haven't posted much. About 4 months ago, received a helmet (300 diodes) from Nidhogge that has been awesome. I do not know if I have had any regrowth yet, but my hair feels much healthier and thicker.
One thing I have noticed is I do not get much (if any) soreness after wearing for 20mins. Is there something else I should be doing?

Until about a month ago, I was also taking Minox. After 1.5 years, I became sick of my hair feeling like crap and decided to get rid of it. Since I stopped, I have had a massive shed with most coming from the crown and top areas. Now I am debating if I should restart or is there a better topical product? The shed definetly scares me and I'd like to regain as much as possible. Any opinions on Zix or any of Dr Lees products like xandrox?

[glaxom]

I stopped my minox and finasteride combo after 6 months of excellent laser results, deciding to see if i could just use the lasers to maintain. What happened..................?


The absolute worst shed i have ever encountered in my life. I mean it was like 3-4yrs of shedding condensed into 3 months and it is just now abating. My hair is now in the worst condition it's ever been in. Yes, i did start back on the min/fin.


If you find something, a certain combo, (whatever it is) and you're getting great results and the sides aren't bothering you too much , IMHO, stick with it.

[OverMachoGrande]

Hey everyone, I really haven't posted much. About 4 months ago, received a helmet (300 diodes) from Nidhogge that has been awesome. I do not know if I have had any regrowth yet, but my hair feels much healthier and thicker.
One thing I have noticed is I do not get much (if any) soreness after wearing for 20mins. Is there something else I should be doing?

Until about a month ago, I was also taking Minox. After 1.5 years, I became sick of my hair feeling like crap and decided to get rid of it. Since I stopped, I have had a massive shed with most coming from the crown and top areas. Now I am debating if I should restart or is there a better topical product? The shed definetly scares me and I'd like to regain as much as possible. Any opinions on Zix or any of Dr Lees products like xandrox?

Hey, man! Go check out my post in this thread: http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/vie ... php?t=1322 I really think there is something DEFINITELY to a "pre-SHAMPOO" topical, and PROBABLY something to a "pre-LASERING" topical!

Oh, hey... we're actually at a forum that has cool functions! lol... I'll just paste the parts of my post I want you to see here:

What I think you should do is this... I think you should DEFINITELY use a "PRE-SHOWER" topical, and you should possibly add a "PRE-LASER" topical.

The "pre-shower" topical is probably extremely significant for some people -and I've been using one almost every single time I've done laser therapy this past 1 2/3rd years, and somehow people miss the importance that I've stressed about this. The idea here is simple... you use a topical that pulls excess sebum out of the scalp/follicle. SEBUM CAN BLOCK LLLT!

What I've used most of the time is polysorbate 80 mixed with ethyl alchohol 50/50. I've recently started experimenting with bentonite clay, and you can check this out here: "Do-it-Yourself Bentonite Clay Topical ("Scalpure-ish")". Man, that stuff really cleans out the scalp, and you can do it with an $8 bottle that will last you for a couple of months. So, you put on the clay, let it dry on your head for about 30 minutes, then shower it off.

Ok, I find the clay to be a little drying. The lasers still work, but when I add a "Pre-Laser" topical (I'm talking about something different now!) right after the shower, it really increases the head pump so much that it's actually a little uncomfortable for me. This can pretty much be any light oil (Gaunitz uses olive oil mixed with lemon juice), but I've been using emu oil mixed with ethyl alcohol mixed about 50/50 (with a few drops of polysorbate 80 to hold it together). All this does is make it so your tissue is "wet". Therefore, more lasers penetrate into the scalp vs. reflect off of the scalp, and since it has an alcohol in it, it penetrates pretty deeply.

Like I said, using both the pre-shower clay and then the pre-laser topical is possibly TOO MUCH FOR ME! So, if you aren't getting a head pump or soreness, this might be right up your alley.

Now, FYI... the reason you might not be getting a headpump could be because you have a lot more fibrotic tissue built up or something. LLLT does work for that, too, but "scar healing" is a lot slower business, and this aspect might be why some people get results in a couple of months and it takes a year for others.

Also, it could very possible be that you had a shed. I might have when I started, but I don't remember -and frankly my hair looked so bad for the few years before I started LLLT that I might not have noticed anyway! It would make sense that I DID HAVE A SHED, because like I said... I didn't notice any results and then, BAM, I did. So, sheds don't last forever, and you could be really close to getting over it, so stick with it.

Finally, some of us have found that the simple addition of magnesium is HUGE with LLLT results. I'm a huge red meat eater, and I have a definite supply of that in my body "naturally". Also, people are experimenting with using the helmet four or five times a week for 15 minutes. Both of those things are apparently affecting the level of stimulation, but I don't want to go into those yet because I don't want to dilute what I'm saying about the other things first!

So, in summary, 4 months still isn't very long. You could have had a shed that is impacting your looks as well. The lack of "headpump" does concern me -and it could simply mean that you have to break through that fibrotic layer before your LLLT is actually going to fix your hair. So, you should definitely at least try the pre-shower topical (because sebum can block LLLT), and if you want to "step it up", you should try the pre-laser topical (which is probably too much for me).

So, since using a clay and the emu oil topical make it so that it's almost TOO MUCH for me, I'd be interested to see what some of you think that aren't getting a lot of soreness.

-O.M.G.

[zixcreator]

If you find something, a certain combo, (whatever it is) and you're getting great results and the sides aren't bothering you too much , IMHO, stick with it.

Completely agree. "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

There's something a lot of people don't realize about propecia. When it cuts circulationg DHT the body reacts by creating more DHT receptors in an effort to uptake as much DHT as possible. (The body becomes more efficient at using what little DHT there is). This rebound effect varies from person to person. But to some degree it happens to everyone. The net result is still that less DHT gets to the follicles as long as you keep taking the drug. But when you stop there is a surge of DHT ravaging the follicles simply because the follicles are so much better at taking up DHT due to the increase in receptor sites. Eventually the amount of receptor sites will normalize but this could take months or years.

That's why my curiosity has mainly shifted to things that can be applied topically and block the receptor sites. Unfortunately I am not aware of anything in the natural realm except for saw palmetto.

[glaxom]

That sounds plausable zix about the DHT receptors. It came back with a vengence hell bent on revenge for me blocking it for so long , with extra receptors to boot to go to.


The fin and minox(with your muck in it) that i restarted have finally settled the shed down.

[ddman2]

OMG - thanks for all your advice. I'm fairly lost on all the treatments out there and its great to know there is a forum of people to share experiences and give advice.

On the Polysorbate 80, what does the mixing with ethyl alcohol do? Does the mixing make a difference. I think I'm going to holdback on the clay for the moment (primarily because I don't think I have the time at the moment)

When using the polysorbate 'pre shower' topical, how long do you typically leave it in? Afterwards, do you just shampoo and condition your hair as normal?

From there, add the 'pre topical' mix of emu oil and ethyl alcohol? How long do you wait until you start lasering?

I'm assuming afterwards, you do a second shower to wash off the oil correct?

Do you think I should start a topical as well to help regain what I lost during the shed?

Glaxom - I haven't touched propecia (and never will) but do you feel like you have had any recovery from the shed?

[number10ox]

In addition to the questions above OMG, I never really get "sore" but I do sometimes get a sensation like a mild sunburn. I got it again tonight after lasering. I use polysorbate 80 as a pre-laser scrub x 12 min., rinse, then Emu and magnesium oil x 12-15 min., rinse again, then laser x 20 minutes.

I remember reading someone's comments recently and they were speculating that the "sunburned" sensation may actually be a sign of harm rather than biostimulation which "soreness" seems to indicate. I wondered if you had thoughts on that, and if you get that sunburn sensation occasionally. Thanks!

[glaxom]

OMG - thanks for all your advice. I'm fairly lost on all the treatments out there and its great to know there is a forum of people to share experiences and give advice.


Glaxom - I haven't touched propecia (and never will) but do you feel like you have had any recovery from the shed?

If you're young , i wouldn't start it either. I started it just after i was 40. And my shed has stopped basically and now i am wondering how many of those thousands of hairs will come back

[ddman2]

In addition to the questions above OMG, I never really get "sore" but I do sometimes get a sensation like a mild sunburn. I got it again tonight after lasering. I use polysorbate 80 as a pre-laser scrub x 12 min., rinse, then Emu and magnesium oil x 12-15 min., rinse again, then laser x 20 minutes.

I remember reading someone's comments recently and they were speculating that the "sunburned" sensation may actually be a sign of harm rather than biostimulation which "soreness" seems to indicate. I wondered if you had thoughts on that, and if you get that sunburn sensation occasionally. Thanks!

Have you found any improvement by doing the scrub and oil? I want to say sometimes I do get the sunburned feel as well. I'd like to know what others think of that

[LaserKid]

If you find something, a certain combo, (whatever it is) and you're getting great results and the sides aren't bothering you too much , IMHO, stick with it.

Completely agree. "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

There's something a lot of people don't realize about propecia. When it cuts circulationg DHT the body reacts by creating more DHT receptors in an effort to uptake as much DHT as possible. (The body becomes more efficient at using what little DHT there is). This rebound effect varies from person to person. But to some degree it happens to everyone. The net result is still that less DHT gets to the follicles as long as you keep taking the drug. But when you stop there is a surge of DHT ravaging the follicles simply because the follicles are so much better at taking up DHT due to the increase in receptor sites. Eventually the amount of receptor sites will normalize but this could take months or years.

That's why my curiosity has mainly shifted to things that can be applied topically and block the receptor sites. Unfortunately I am not aware of anything in the natural realm except for saw palmetto.

How could you reduce the effects of stopping propecia? I will need to stop at some point, no doubt, I just don't wanna go through a massive shed and lose everything I've worked so hard to maintain over the past few years. I'm considering dropping the dose over a prolonged period of time, v slowly. When the time comes I'm considering dropping the dose over a few years, halving the dose every 6 months, until I reach 0.25mg, and then smoothly extending the periods between taking the propecia (e.g 0.25 every 3 days, then every 4 days, then every 5 and so on ....). Would this be enough to allow the receptor densities to normalize to levels before I started taking fin?

[number10ox]

ddman2- I can't say I feel any more stimulation now than before I started the polysorbate 80/ magnesium oil routine. It's frustrating. Some say they get results without getting sore, but I don't think I'm getting any results so maybe soreness in necessary in my case.

[ddman2]

I bought some Polysorborate and going to start adding that prior to using the helmet

Has anyone had any experience with Xandrox? I hear Azelaic Acid is good for blocking DHT and thinking of starting that as well