When Fin stops working?

[LaserKid]

What are the options?

I've been on Fin for going on four years now. Never had any serious sides, the odd bout of brain fog, but that's about it. What are the options when despite 1mg fin, hair loss continues to proceed.

I'm not really all that happy about taking dut. Are there other antiandrogens? I'm thinking of adding Niz, as well as laser soon. Anyone know any good internals which may help. I'm young-ish and like going out and picking up girls, so to be honest I'd rather not have the hassle of a topical which I know I'm not going to be able to be consistent with.

Cheers guys. Also, does anyone know why after a few years fin loses it's potency? Has it got something to do with liver enzymes being upregulated, removing the fin quicker than before? If so, increasing dosages may be required?

[p__]

Strictly speaking, neither finasteride nor dutasteride are antiandrogens. As you know, they are 5a-reductase inhibitors. For the sake of clarity, I think it's best to refer to them as just that: 5a-reductase inhibitors. The reason is that there are "real" antiandrogens (stuff that usually interferes directly with androgen receptors) available and since they work in a different way, they have thier own set of effects and side-effect which are to some degree different than those resulting from 5a-reductase inhibitors.

Internally, I'd say increased finasteride dosage to 5mg (even though the dose response curve it pretty flat) or dutasteride are your best bets if we are talking 5a-reductase inhibitors. I don't think saw palmetto has anything to offer over finasteride. If it works in-vivo in humans, which I doubt, it works through the same vector as finasteride and would thus be subject to at least the same side-effects for any given level of effect. It is simply unproven for hair loss at this point and proper dosage as well as other possible side-effects have not been studied the way finasteride has.

I wouldn't recommend ANY internal antiandrogen. They are likely to give you extreme side-effects at relevant doses.

Topically there are a few antiandrogens worth testing, notably spironolactone and RU58841 since they are unlikely to have any systematic effects. Spiro is the weaker but more studied of the two. Topical 5a-reductase inhibitors are a tricky subject. Although there are studies which seem to show that topical 5a-reductase inhibitors work, I haven't seen anything conclusive to suggest that they work through any other route than systematic absorption, in which case there really is no point in topical application. In other words, I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that they have a "local" effect. Then again, you might as well try it since you have no problem with finasteride in general.

Finasteride does not lose its potency. It is one of the common myths or misconceptions. If you look at the long term curves for finasteride users vs. control group, you'll actually see an increase in the difference of hair density over time between the two. And at no point is the finasteride curve lower than or equal to the control curve. This does not mean that the average finasteride users does not lose hair, just that the longer he's on it, the better he is off compared to the control group. The average finasteride user will increase his hair density the first year, so that it goes above baseline and then it will drop slowly over the years. And even though eventually the average finasteride user will be below baseline, the drop-off is always slower than for the control group, making the difference between the groups increase over time. At no point is there a "sudden" drop in the curve, indicating that the drug has lost its effect. For a good responder the process will be practically halted, while a poor responder won't get much results at all and will still go bald at a high pace. The thing to understand, though, is that AGA is a degenerative and progressive condition, which seems to get more and more aggressive over time. This goes for finasteride users as well as non-users. So while the effects of finasteride stay the same, your hair loss may get "nastier", maybe beacuse your follicles get more sensitive or because the compounded "damage" eventually reaches a certain threshold level (just speculation on my behalf). Add to that the fact that losing 10 000 hairs when you have a full head of hair is hardly noticable, but if you just have 20 000 hairs left, losing 10 000 is going to make a huge visual difference. So even if your hair loss actually would progress linearly, you'd probably still perceive it as accelerating.

[zixcreator]

I would recommend a six month trial of a topical DHT receptor site blocker along with the fin. Topical saw palmetto is my favorite.

[CPIO]

5a-reductase topical often does not work, in my experience. However topical antiandrogen DO work, with pretty good results, two of them being lavender and tea tree oil, the latter being most potent. Skinoren azelaic acid is another very useful topical.

5a-reductase taken orally can for some replace finasteride very succesfully in the form of 7-HRM lignans, which is on sale right now at swansons http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU334/I ... 4294967187

I'd get some if they shipped to my location without hassle (- shipping overcharge)

[p__]

However topical antiandrogen DO work, with pretty good results, two of them being lavender and tea tree oil, the latter being most potent.

But only systematically, AFAIK, so you might as well eat an antiandrogen or put it on your legs or wherever. If I recall correctly, boys can grow tits from using it during/before puberty. Those who do also display a strange tendency to stay at home and fondle themselves a lot. Seriously though, has it ever been (credibly) linked to reduced hair loss?

Skinoren azelaic acid is another very useful topical.

I haven't seen any good evidence to support that notion. More or less all studies show that it has no effect on hair loss. On a more anecdotal note, given the amount of people using it in their faces, there should be reports of people regrowing their hairline with it if it had any effect, since you are likely to get some there when you smear it on your face. But I guess it doens't hurt to try.