The laser shed

Discuss the use of laser therapy for fighting hair loss. If you're using a purchased device, or a laserbrush or helmet that you've made yourself, discuss it here.

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The laser shed

Postby jksl » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:52 pm

Okay guys, it's been a month of lasering for me and it seems like i'm in the shed phase now. I'm pretty sure of it now. I'm shedding mostly 'thicker' hairs right now. The shed isn't too scary. It's about 50% more than what i've been shedding 'normally'. I do, however, see a number of peach fuzz around my hairline and within my temples. Anyway, I remember others started shedding after 1 or 1.5 months into lasering. What i don't remember is how long this shed is supposed to last (speaking on average among laser users). Can anyone tell me how long their laser shed went on for?
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Re: The laser shed

Postby OverMachoGrande » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:40 pm

lol... I'm such a moron, when you said "the laser shed", I had a picture of a device made out of aluminum or something! My god... I need some sleep.

Image

I'm sure someone else knows this better than I do, but I know that I didn't notice results until the 3 1/2 months point, and the results have been a fairly straight line upwards (especially when it's looked at in three or four month intervals vs. week to week). So, there is a big chance that I could have had a shed during that first period of time but I didn't notice anything because my hair looked so horrible for the two years before that (and futher recession BEHIND a transplanted hair line from years before kind of looks a bit like shedding anyway, so maybe that's why it was "masked").

Anyway, all I'm saying is that some people do have quick results that never seem to stop, and others take longer, usually to around the four month point like me. Maybe that's because the shed stopped, the formerly shedded areas have grown back enough, and all of the hair has changed for the better by then. After that, perhaps the continued results are because of regrowth and a continual thickening. Just thinking outloud.

So maybe I did shed and maybe it took until 3 1/2 months for it to not only come back, but surpass the appearance of my hair before I started. Sorry I can't help more than that!

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Re: The laser shed

Postby hermann » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:21 pm

Hey jskl,

firstly my three questions to you are:

- How do you know it is a laser shed?
- Are you applying LLLT because everything is fine with your hair?
- Or are you, because something had changed in terms of hairgrowth BEFORE?

And then about the time BEFORE:
Did your hair change by a shed?
If not - it shows hairloss is possible without remarkable sheds
If yes - you have herewith stated a shed before starting LLLT.

Though I have an advanced hairloss type compared to you, I experienced a similar result after 2 month of LLLT.
A small fuzz in the temples (my family noticed last weekend, after not seeing me for two month).

My last shed took about 3 month time from April to June, independent of the new fuzz.
Sheds happened regularly to me also without LLLT in my long history.
I can not say that LLLT causes sheds.

Good luck. Keep cool. Don't overdo.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby medstudent 21 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:42 pm

Im at almost 2 months and im shedding quite rapidly. It is def shedding more than when i was not on lasers. But this could be a good sign. My hair is very limp and thinning BUt thin and thick hairs are falling out, which leads me to beleive that new hairs may be taking thier place. I do have a lot of peach fuzz on my temples that def wasnt there before. so only time willl tell. Im thinking by month 5 i should see a complete hault in shedding and perhaps some thickening.

The reason why i am so anxious to see results is because i caught my hairloss within the first 6 months, until it got really bad. So i am a prme subject for laser use, and if this actually works then its a great option for young people to stop thier hairloss while they still have follicles!!!

FINGERS CROSSED.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Awaiting Regrowth » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:02 am

Week 6 of lasering and today I look BALD!

I hope this is just a shed and regrowth is on it's way because I can't leave my hair like this.

Can see fuzz around my temples, but I need thickening of scalp hair!
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Re: The laser shed

Postby medstudent 21 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:48 am

I am on week 7 and i have the same EXACT thing happening to my scalp. Shed is super fast and scalp is showing a lot. i do have temple hairs too
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Awaiting Regrowth » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:24 pm

Okay, I AM scared but I have come too far and spent too much money to stop!

Baring in mind that A LOT of treatments incurr a shed, this may just be part of the course. Either that or we will all keep shedding till we are BALD :-({|=

Keep me informed of any changes.

Peace

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Re: The laser shed

Postby LaserKid » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:10 am

I remember back on Regrowth, cuebreeze was going through similar anxiety when starting LLLT. He's in a early stage of hairloss. I think it took him a few weeks for it to settle down. Is that right cubreeze? or did I just make all that up ...

This is also the main reason why I am apprehensive about starting lasers. I've got good coverage on top when my hair is dry. Can see a lot of my scalp when wet, but then I think my hair has always been like that. My hair seems to thin when wet, even on the sides. However, I've def lost some thickness on top so should get on lasers and do something about it before it gets any worse!
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Re: The laser shed

Postby hapyman » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:17 pm

Hang in there guys. I have been through the same crap and I know it is disheartening. Sheds are always scary. It seems there is a handful of people who shed after adding lasers but this usually stops and is followed by good things. Not sure why some seem to shed and some others seem to not. Who knows. For me I was stopping minoxidil because that stuff was poison for me. I steadily shed on and off for months.

I finally stabilized after 10 months on LLLT and am starting to see more results. I can say that in places where I shed I have hair growing back and not just velus hairs. There are still plenty of those too but there are terminal hairs too. I am hoping eventually all of the hairs will change over. It takes time.

The thing with LLLT that we don't know is why some people seem to respond better than others. Actually let me reword that... why some seem to respond quicker than others. We do know though that the percentage of people seeing results drastically increases with the amount of time you use LLLT.

Over at regrowth this was a hot topic before things went to crap. We were mulling over theories of why people were slower responders than others. Just to hit on a few topics we were discussing: one was skin color vs. hair color and another was deficiencies in things like magnesium.

There does seem to be some disparity in LLLT in those with blonde hair and light skin for whatever reason. This is not to say they can't achieve results it just seems to take longer but who knows. I am in this group of people and have been experimenting with different treatment times and frequencies to maximize my results.

Also you may have noticed that there is a lot of talk about magnesium and magnesium oil recently. JDP has been kind enough to do the research and found that one of the main reasons LLLT works is because it triggers your mitochondria to create ATP. It is also well known that magnesium stabilizes ATP. Without adequate levels of magnesium the ATP is quickly degraded as heat. This seems to be more than one persons problem and there are some that seem to get more soreness when using magoil.

Anyway remember to try and stick it through. If you are interested we can look into this further with you guys and hopefully we can see if there is something that needs to be changed. However, I wouldn't worry unless you are at least 6 months in (OR MORE) and are still not seeing anything in terms of stabilization or at least thickening of existing hair.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby medstudent 21 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:48 pm

Do you guys use an oil or pill? i found mag chloride in pill form will that suffice?
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Awaiting Regrowth » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:03 am

Hi Medstudent

There is an article on ATP about at the moment, take a look. Apparently taking Mag orally can take many months to increase it in your system. I reccommend find a magnesium lotion and applying that.

How is your shed going? Mine is still pretty bad 2 months in. I really hope my hair gets back to where it was before I started! I plan to add mag oil and looking for a good conditioner.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:00 pm

This shed is getting ridiculous. I don't know how much more of this i can handle. Right now, i'm losing about 80+ hairs in the shower a day which is more than i ever lost on a nizoral shed of 60. After my TE/AE slowed down last year, i now "normally" shed around 40-50. About the first 10 days of starting treatment, i was down to under 10 hairs lost in the shower a day.

I'm worried that i'm overstimulating since the majority of hairs i'm losing now are the thick and medium-thick ones. A lot of the thick hairs i'm losing are half an inch long, but i'm wondering if those hairs are the ones i'm losing from the sides and back (i am thinning and losing globally).

I think my main issue may be a zinc deficiency as i seem to be losing hair on my body as well. This shed could just be a coincidence from that. I don't know. I am tempted to reduce treatment times though..
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Awaiting Regrowth » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:30 pm

jksl wrote:This shed is getting ridiculous. I don't know how much more of this i can handle. Right now, i'm losing about 80+ hairs in the shower a day which is more than i ever lost on a nizoral shed of 60. After my TE/AE slowed down last year, i now "normally" shed around 40-50. About the first 10 days of starting treatment, i was down to under 10 hairs lost in the shower a day.

I'm worried that i'm overstimulating since the majority of hairs i'm losing now are the thick and medium-thick ones. A lot of the thick hairs i'm losing are half an inch long, but i'm wondering if those hairs are the ones i'm losing from the sides and back (i am thinning and losing globally).

I think my main issue may be a zinc deficiency as i seem to be losing hair on my body as well. This shed could just be a coincidence from that. I don't know. I am tempted to reduce treatment times though..



Hi JKSL

Not sure if this helps but I am still shedding a horrible amount. I would say I have rapidly lost at least 20% of my overall coverage and now for the first time my hairloss is obvious to others. I have no advice apart from making sure you have the right vitamins and maybe try mag oil?

Good luck and if you start to see an improvement let me know!

Peace
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Re: The laser shed

Postby OverMachoGrande » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:51 pm

Dang it! lol... I just lost my whole dang post because I accidentally used my touch mouse to go back two pages! Oh well... and I had the cure for shedding spelled out. Your loss, I guess. No, lol... I'm kidding, but this is pretty much what I wrote:

Are any of you using a boar bristle brush yet? I've talked about it A LOT before, but I don't think anyone ever actually takes my advice! lol...

Image

What it does is spread the sebum down the shaft of the hair -which makes it much healthier and shinier- but I think we might have a bit of a "WIVES TALE" that might shockingly be TRUE and delivering something beneficial here in terms of shedding. It has to do with the whole thing about when you exert a "pulling force" on your hair, the follicle muscles respond by "gripping more", therefore your hair is less likely to shed prematurely.

I don't know if that happens for sure, but it seems like it actually does do that, and what I do know is that I'm pretty confident based on my experiences in saying that EVERYONE should be using a boar bristle brush for extended periods of time during a shedding period. I think it can stop it in it's tracks -at least that's what I've found, and for $8.99 at walmart, you can't beat it.

At the least, you will notice shinier, healthier looking hair. The reason I don't do this enough is because it just HURTS me too much now that I've alleviated so much fibrosis after 1 3/4ths years using LLLT. I still try to use it for about three or four minutes when I can, though.

This is what I did for probably months TWO through SIX of my laser therapy: If I showered in the morning, I'd wait until NIGHT TIME, when my hair was more greasy, and I'd use the brush for about 20 minutes. Literally, I'd set the timer. In fact, every time my hair was greasy, I'd start doing that.

I really think it makes an impact. At that point in time, I was taking a hiatus from superzix II -something that also reduces shedding greatly with me (I believe because it lengthens the anagen phase of hair loss, but I can't prove that).

Anyway, done be a BORE... use a BOAR. [...bristle brush.] I'd like to hear feedback on this, and I really think it's something that you will notice within TWO WEEKS whether or not it's doing something beneficial with stopping shedding.

On a side note... we really need to explore this shedding issue in depth. There just HAS TO BE a way to stop this from happening. Until enough of you tell me I'm wrong about the simple, mechanical action of using a boar bristle brush, though, I'm going to believe that this is the best way so far.

So go to Walmart and spend the money, use it for 20 minutes a night when your hair starts getting a little greasy, and no... I'm not secretely making money off of the sale of boar bristle brushes (I used to have to say that stuff all the time! lol...)

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Re: The laser shed

Postby HairLossFight.com » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:53 am

Hey OMG,

I use a boar bristle brush primarily because it is the best brush for STYLING my hair. Mine is the round brush, which I find is even better for controlling the hair style.

One point I have though: I think brushing too much is not so good. This is because you are potentially causing traction alopecia with all the pulling on the hair shaft. Mind you, if you do it right, you shouldn't feel pain. I think it is good insofar as spreading the sebum up the shaft of the hair, like you said, and also in exfoliating the scalp.

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Re: The laser shed

Postby medstudent 21 » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:34 pm

Hey guys,

Just want to give you my 3 month update on things.

1st: Hair is reallly really %&$! and thin. Shedding is alot, but i have been super stressed out about my tests this summer and of course girls.
2nd. Vellus hairs are still there and i think they are getting darker/ longer
3rd: some of my psoriasis is still there but the itching has def dampered down, but this could have been because of the steriods too.

Overall: the helmet has given me hope, and im really hoping to see a stop in shed by month 6, and these vellus hairs growing into long terminal ones. Will be using mag oil soon!
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Joely » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:32 am

I'm just shy of 5 months using my 200 diode laser helmet and think I am currently going through a shed. It can be disheartening seeing that hair fall out (generally its thin weak looking hair falling out). What I seem to have noticed in my 5 months or so is that I have periods where shedding is non existent then there will be a week or two where i will shed (most noticable in the shower.I feel my hair has improved using the helmet even though the shed's can be disheartening and you question what is going on. I still think 5/6 months is early and the real time to gauge progress will probably be around the 8-12 month mark. One thing I will say is however, I think that since since using the helmet the total amount I have shed has been much less. I have wooden flooring in my room and the area where I sit at would have loads of hairs I had shed round it. Since using LLT, the number of hairs round that area have reduced significantly and you have to really look to notice any.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:12 pm

medstudent, have you ever counted how many hairs you've lost in the shower?

I took a shower just now and counted 103 mostly thick hairs and that is not including the tiny vellus hairs stuck to the strainer. :-({|=
It very well could be because of my seasonal allergies though - they've started up a couple of weeks ago.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby NeverQuit » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:47 am

Today is my 5 months mark for LLLT and I have lost probably 25% of my hair in the last 3 weeks. Problem is I have very fine short blonde hair, so I can never tell when it falls. So I guess this HAS to be a shed, to loose this much so fast. All I can do is hang on and ride it out and hope for the best. LLLT is still fairly new, so all of us into the 5-6 month mark with these sheds may just come back stronger than the baseline! Let's hope.

The only thing that is disheartening, is that I have not heard from ANYONE using LLLT who fell below baseline with a major shed and then grew it back to baseline or more. I'm not talking the..."oh I see some vellus hairs popping up all over" or " I think it's turning around, my hair seems thicker" I'm talking. " that was the worst shed ever, but it all came back".

Either this is because it's so new so we need to wait for more users and time in - OR -.....????

If ANYONE out there had a major shed 4-6 months into LLLT and had it all come back then PLEASE speak up so we can be encouraged. If not, then some of us should look at varying time and frequency of use or other factors.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jdp710 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:15 am

NeverQuit,

I'm sorry to hear that.

I hate bringing this up as this has been discussed so many times before but I can't help but see how

people who use minoxidil don't get much in results with LLLT.

Sure, you'll get some that do have results doing both but based on testimonials, it appears the ones using minoxidil in conjunction with LLLT seem to have the lowest success rate.

As Jettset said months ago LLLT opens calcium channels,minox is a potassium channels opener and has opposite effect





P.S. Sorry to annoy with the bold and underline but wanted to make it available so others can see. I won't comment anymore on this subject as it always turns ugly. Even the regrowth.com webmaster has his signature of "blame it on the minoxidil" as a cheap shot at people like me who say to be careful using both at same time.

Hope this helps and good luck.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby LaserKid » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:57 am

NeverQuit wrote:Today is my 5 months mark for LLLT and I have lost probably 25% of my hair in the last 3 weeks. Problem is I have very fine short blonde hair, so I can never tell when it falls. So I guess this HAS to be a shed, to loose this much so fast. All I can do is hang on and ride it out and hope for the best. LLLT is still fairly new, so all of us into the 5-6 month mark with these sheds may just come back stronger than the baseline! Let's hope.

The only thing that is disheartening, is that I have not heard from ANYONE using LLLT who fell below baseline with a major shed and then grew it back to baseline or more. I'm not talking the..."oh I see some vellus hairs popping up all over" or " I think it's turning around, my hair seems thicker" I'm talking. " that was the worst shed ever, but it all came back".

Either this is because it's so new so we need to wait for more users and time in - OR -.....????

If ANYONE out there had a major shed 4-6 months into LLLT and had it all come back then PLEASE speak up so we can be encouraged. If not, then some of us should look at varying time and frequency of use or other factors.



I've been reading quite a bit over at the Hairmax forums, and it seems a lot of people go through a shed phase even with that underpowered device. There's a guy over there called Rob who posts quite a bit. He's been saying that it took 7months for his shedding to stop ... 7 months! But, he hung in there and is finally getting results. Other people say they go through phases of shedding, then no shedding. There are a lot of posts over at the forum if anyone wants to go and read. A few negative, a few positive. A lot of the newer posts have been answered by Lexington, which is nice!
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:20 pm

LaserKid wrote:I've been reading quite a bit over at the Hairmax forums, and it seems a lot of people go through a shed phase even with that underpowered device. There's a guy over there called Rob who posts quite a bit. He's been saying that it took 7months for his shedding to stop ... 7 months! But, he hung in there and is finally getting results. Other people say they go through phases of shedding, then no shedding. There are a lot of posts over at the forum if anyone wants to go and read. A few negative, a few positive. A lot of the newer posts have been answered by Lexington, which is nice!


Yeah, i check that forum occasionally. I remember there was a guy who said the shed led to a sizable bald spot on the back of his head, but filled in 6 months later better than baseline. This shedding really does a number on the psyche.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby N0rwgnKid » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:57 pm

JDP, I am personally weening off the minox now,. But, how many hours between lasering and applying the crap do you think I should give it, to make it influence lasering as little as possible ??

Thanks ;)
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:45 am

Okay, i've had enough. I'm going to go with my gut instinct and reduce treatment time to 10 minutes every other day. It's really difficult to believe that this shed is par for the course. I let my hair grow out a bit and i'm losing plenty of thick 1 inch hairs. Maybe i need to get on that clay. Also, my supplements (zinc, biotin, etc.) arrived. Here's hoping that they'll help me.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Dr. Watt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:47 am

jksl wrote:Okay, i've had enough. I'm going to go with my gut instinct and reduce treatment time to 10 minutes every other day. It's really difficult to believe that this shed is par for the course. I let my hair grow out a bit and i'm losing plenty of thick 1 inch hairs. Maybe i need to get on that clay. Also, my supplements (zinc, biotin, etc.) arrived. Here's hoping that they'll help me.


JKSL, sounds like you are approaching month 3 correct? I shed considerably until about month 4 and things calmed down. Like you I was shedding hairs I did not expect to shed. After month 4 I moved my treatment times to 20 minutes every 3rd day instead of every other day 3 x week. I am not sure if that will make any difference. Perhaps even that is too much. Keep us posted how things go with your new treatment times. BTW it appears you are not using Minoxidil correct? I am not saying that would explain the shed but I am trying to collect information on folks who had this shed but were _not_ using minox.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Jedder » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:10 am

For the first couple of months of using my 300 diode helmet, i did the usual 20 mins 3 x a week routine.........at around 7 weeks my hair looked decimated! I also used to get the sunburnt feeling on my head at around the 15 min mark.I think you need to listen to your head/ gut feeling! For the last few weeks i have done 15 mins, twice a week and the shed seems to have stopped and hair seems to be getting thicker. For the record i have very short dark hair.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:01 pm

I never used minoxidil and fin. I'm only using a 415 laser helmet. The shed is pissing me off because i had improvement very early on and now i'm worse than baseline.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Dr. Watt » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:23 pm

jksl wrote:I never used minoxidil and fin. I'm only using a 415 laser helmet. The shed is pissing me off because i had improvement very early on and now i'm worse than baseline.


Yeah, we are all in a tough situation. I have confidence that lasers are a sound technology. But no doubt there are a lot of variables to consider. Jedder makes an interesting post on treatment time. It may be that we all can't use the device for the same length without negative effects. It is also interesting that you hit sheds without Minoxidil. There is a great deal of discussion about the effect that potassium and calcium channels have when using the two.

A 415 node laser sounds like you went balls to the wall right from the start. I've cut down on my days using (every 3rd day x 20 minutes). I will run this for 2 months and if nothing positive I will reduce my time to 15 minutes. This is all guess work obviously. Hopefully between all the posters and enough time under our belts we will start to piece the recipe together.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby hapyman » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:11 pm

It never hurts to experiment with treatment times, that is unless you are trying something completely crazy and irrational :D

I now do 10 minutes 2 days in a row and then take a day off. Rinse and repeat. Things seem to be much more stable for me now. Before I felt like I was on a roller coaster ride of scalp sensations
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Jedder » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:18 pm

I think it is interesting that laser clinics can provide good results using the 3 x 20 mins or less per week..........and they are using a lot less lasers to achieve this. It is my opinion that more lasers without reducing treatment time is over stimulation in many cases. As is the case with many things in life - less is sometimes more :?:
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Re: The laser shed

Postby hapyman » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:54 pm

Jedder wrote:I think it is interesting that laser clinics can provide good results using the 3 x 20 mins or less per week..........and they are using a lot less lasers to achieve this. It is my opinion that more lasers without reducing treatment time is over stimulation in many cases. As is the case with many things in life - less is sometimes more :?:


However you are overlooking one major fact. The number of diodes is simply to cover more surface area. More diodes targeted at the same space would be a problem due to the magnification of joules from overlap. However if you do OMGs spacing correctly there isn't any overlap. The salon devices are designed the way they are so they can treat all different head shapes and sizes without having different devices. Some salon devices get around the surface area aspect by rotating their devices. Also their lasers are focused because due to their design they cannot get equal distance from the scalp and thus have to settle for the diodes being placed further from the scalp. The focused lasers allow the energy to stay more concentrated over longer distances vs. diffused diodes. If you can achieve equi-distant diodes (i.e. OMGs design) diffused lasers are the way to go.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:29 pm

I'm here to report that my shedding is slowing down. No more of that 100+ hairs lost in the shower bullsh!t. For the past few days, i've been losing roughly 60 hairs (Around 20 in the sink and 40+ in the shower). I thought it was fluke at first, but these numbers have been stable for the past few days. Currently, i'm only using the laser helmet 7 minutes, 3 times a week (21 minutes a week in total; 1/3 of standard protocol). It's possible that my zinc and biotin supplementation is helping as well. Let's see how this goes.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:28 pm

Guys, i just took a shower and counted 31 hairs lost in the shower and only 6 hairs lost from combing. That is a HUGE improvement. There's another thing i've noticed as well - my body hair and eyebrows have gotten a bit thicker lately. There's even new hair growth between my eyebrows. This leads me to believe that i was right about the vitamin and mineral deficiencies being a cause or a contributor to my fcuked up shedding (w/ recession and miniturization). I doubt the lasers had anything to do with my body hair, unless irradiating my blood boosted my body hair growth - i really doubt that that's the case though. i started taking 5 mg biotin and 50 mg of zinc gluconate powder a day, around the same time that i reduced laser treatment times. I've also been taking swigs of cod liver oil a day (probably more than a tablespoon). This is on top of my other omega 3 supp - krill oil. another thing i've changed is that i now take 10 000 iu of vitamin D a day and i drink organic green (unfermented) rooibos tea every other day.

So, from what i can tell, my laser treatment times may not have had much or anything at all to do with my scary shedding. Does this mean i'll up my laser treatment times? i don't know. All i know is that my hair doesn't feel as "fried" with lower treatment times. With that said, i did see results with 20 minutes/3x a week, initially. I'm trying to figure out what caused my deficiencies since i didn't change my diet or routine much when i started to notice my results diminishing. It's possible that overstimulation with lasers under some vitamin/mineral deficient state could make things worse after some time. Perhaps, laser stimulation causes the nutrients in the irradiated area to be used up and you'd need to constantly replenish those nutrients, otherwise it would be like running a car with no engine oil. Just a theory though.

If you're a global diffuse thinner like me and lasers aren't working for you, i suggest you try high dose biotin and take a clean zinc supplement. there is definitely more than mpb going on for us global diffuse thinners. Anyway, i just added Toco8 and i'm hoping it will further benefit my hair.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby hapyman » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Good to see you are getting everything under control :D There are so many more things in play here. I like how you mention that other body hairs were being shed, which really has nothing to do with lasers. I do laser blood irradiation (LBI) a couple times a week and it has no bearing on my body hair whatsoever. Mineral deficiencies are a big thing in the modern world especially since most of the food supply is devoid of the nutrients they once had.

Anyways good to hear and keep us updated.

BTW if you are doing lower treatment times (like me) you might want to increase the number of treatment times and see how that works out first.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby europe » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:02 pm

Guys on reduced time - Can you point us the "symptoms" that made you change the treament frequency, time....
Except an abnormal shedding of course.

I think that is related to scalp sensation. Which are specificaly?

From my experience : I'm in my 5 months. 3X20min a week. experienced a shedding in that month, but seems to subside.
Hair a lot thicker, better elasticity, a change in hair apparence. It appears identical on top than on back and sides.

The funny thing is that i bought a lasercomb in march 03. Used it 3 times a week, for 20-20 minutes. And i experienced scalp burns etc....
I do not with an OMG 2 300 diodes.
My diet, supps, mag oil etc...wasn't there at that time....
Still, it's good to know that if i ever experience a scalp disorder, i can change the time exposure...
Most of all, i know feel what we can call a "cold" scalp. Relieved.
I scalp exercice a lot too....

hope this helped. and don't forget my question above !
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Re: The laser shed

Postby europe » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:08 pm

> Most of all, i know feel what we can call a "cold" scalp. Relieved.

correcting.
After a laser session, i FELL a "cold" sensation that seems to last a few hours, perhaps the day.

But, my main goal, as everyone, is to keep inflammation at bay, and to never have that tingling scalp, dry, bumps, etc...
I still have it from time to time, and lasers really does the trick, for sure.

But once again, i take other things. I know JDP710 and Hapyman 's regimen, and they certainly do not put only a laser helmet+ mag oil on their head.
No magic bullet. Perhaps, but i let the others try !
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Jedder » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:19 am

The factors that made me change my treatment times...........increased shedding, a sunburn feeling on my scalp at around the 13, 14 minute mark.......and sometimes a feeling of light headedness.
I reduced my times to 13/14 mins twice a week, shedding has stopped and things are looking better.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Dr. Watt » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:06 pm

Jedder wrote:The factors that made me change my treatment times...........increased shedding, a sunburn feeling on my scalp at around the 13, 14 minute mark.......and sometimes a feeling of light headedness.
I reduced my times to 13/14 mins twice a week, shedding has stopped and things are looking better.


Jedder, sounds like you and I have moved in similar directions. Keep us posted on how you thing go. My shedding stopped when I changed my times as well. I don't think I have recovered any hair from the large shed yet but my hair is acting healthy again and I am happy about that. Let's see if we can get some progress going now.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby jksl » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:52 am

Dr. Watt wrote:
Jedder wrote:My shedding stopped when I changed my times as well. I don't think I have recovered any hair from the large shed yet but my hair is acting healthy again and I am happy about that.


Exactly the same with me.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby NeverQuit » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:06 pm

....still, unfortunately the same with me.

So at what point are you guys going to stop. I am going on 7.5 months and would estimate 30% less hair and 30% thinning of my remaining hair. What once was a totally invisible scalp is now completely visible. I found an older thread that JDP posted. He didn't reference the article, however it appeared to be from an LLLT center. In the article it stated that if your scalp was sore you were in a state of overstimulation. Since I have had a sunburn feeling for the last 4 months according to this article I have been in an overstimulation state for the last 4 months which may explain my acceleration in hairloss (MANY would argue this point).

The point is I WANT this to be true because I can control this one and if anything it means LLLT is working but just a little too good. Now if what OMG and some of the others said was true, overstimulations can NOT cause hairloss.

I am totally confused on what to do now. Am I overstimulated? Is it causing it? I think I will be the guinee pig for us non responders and stop cold turkey until Christmas. If I get any thickening by then, I know it has something to do with LLLT. I may even try 5 minute sessions twice a week and see if something improves. Certainly that little amount of time can't cause overstimulation :).

Lastly, if for some reason I was in an overstimulation state for the 7.5 months which was causing the loss, and cutting down times brings me back to normal, have I caused irreversible damage? I realize this is a much debated contraversial topic, but what if????
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Dr. Watt » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:28 pm

NeverQuit wrote:I am totally confused on what to do now. Am I overstimulated? Is it causing it? I think I will be the guinee pig for us non responders and stop cold turkey until Christmas. If I get any thickening by then, I know it has something to do with LLLT. I may even try 5 minute sessions twice a week and see if something improves. Certainly that little amount of time can't cause overstimulation :).

Lastly, if for some reason I was in an overstimulation state for the 7.5 months which was causing the loss, and cutting down times brings me back to normal, have I caused irreversible damage? I realize this is a much debated contraversial topic, but what if????


Lousy situation to be in and I feel for you on your decision. I don't care what anyone says. For certain people, I know I am one, over-lasering causes shedding. My hairloss was linear and consistent. When I lasered at the orignal times my shedding spiked in a way I had not seen before. When I cut down on my times, the shedding stopped. It really is as simple as that. (please don't start another debate on this with me folks if you don't mind).

Since I switched to 12 minutes every 3 days things have been better. It seems that some of the areas that completely shed in months 4 - 5.5 are improving very slightly. I am not positive yet though. I tend to think that if you don't continue to overstimulate then those follicles that are still active will continue to do so.

So in other words, we may have had a good deal of hair that was in a resting phase but really growing much any longer. Not that those have been pushed out, they may not come right back. And if they do they be miniaturized as we would expect in MPB.

I think stopping completely for some period of time makes great sense. I would give it at least a month. Then I would come back into at greatly reduced times and work back into it. If I had to give advice to any newbies doing LLLT, it would be to have a gradual start rather than just putting the foot to the accelerator and taking a chance that you are not one of the folks who reacts negatively beyond a given amount of stimulation.

I'll continue to post how my progress goes or does not go.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby 1..... » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:59 pm

Dr. watt,

do you use clay or mag oil at all?
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Re: The laser shed

Postby LaserKid » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:43 pm

Hey Dr Watt, when u were shedding hairs, were they just from the areas u were treating with laser or were u also shedding hairs from the sides as well?

Thanks for the advice about starting laser treatment. I myself am in the process of building a cluster to treat my thinning hair. I'm gonna start at a low time, say 10 x 3, and then maybe up by a few mins every month till I reach 20 x 3. Obviously depends on whether I am seeing any results or not!
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Dr. Watt » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:47 pm

LaserKid wrote:Hey Dr Watt, when u were shedding hairs, were they just from the areas u were treating with laser or were u also shedding hairs from the sides as well?

Thanks for the advice about starting laser treatment. I myself am in the process of building a cluster to treat my thinning hair. I'm gonna start at a low time, say 10 x 3, and then maybe up by a few mins every month till I reach 20 x 3. Obviously depends on whether I am seeing any results or not!


That is a good question. No I was only shedding in the treated area. Good luck on your system. I don't think starting slowly will hurt you at all.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Jedder » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:01 pm

I agree with Dr Watts advice. Since taking a two week break and reducing treatment times things continue to stabilise. The most important advice i could give - as soon as you get the sunburn feeling, call it quits for the day. I always tend to get that feeling at around the 13/14 minute mark.......so i use that as my treatment time.Still doing twice weekly at the mo, plan on going to three times but keeping the times the same.
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Jedder » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:05 pm

Neverquit - i think you need to have a break.....minimum two weeks. Then either do 15 mins max three times a week......or..... rip some of the diodes out and stick at 20 mins
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Re: The laser shed

Postby Thisisme » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:22 pm

Wanted to post to see if their is an update from anyone on this topic. There seem to be several similar threads on various forums dating back to 2009, yet no updates one way or another (seems most of the people who posted on this thread havent been on in over a year). Hopefully this is a good sign that all the sheds were resolved and it grew back. I am currently going through a similar shed and seem to vascilate between it being overstimulation or LLLT negating minoxidil. Any input/updates would be greatly appreciated.
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